Wednesday, June 4, 2008

Erm

Can someone please explain to me what Hillary is doing? I'm so confused.

-Agent Ska-
Posted by at

16 comments:

  1. Eileen, Founder, Organizer, Mayor and Chief Cook And Bottle Washer of the Anger Management Girls.June 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM

    She's doing the typical Clinton thing, win at all costs, even if you have to lie, cheat and steal.Winning and power are the only things that matter to her and her husband.

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  2. Sherry PasquarelloJune 4, 2008 at 11:35 AM

    i would have been so proud of her if she would have been as gracious and respectful towards obama in her speech as he was of her in his.

    it looks, even if it isn't, like arm twisting on her part. that makes obama look weak and doesn't help keep maccain from winning the presidency.

    last night it looked as if it were all about her and not about the country.

    people tend to forget that they are running to be a public servant.

    she is a brilliant and strong woman
    i do admire her but last night, she had the opportunity to bow out with style and go on to be a real force for good in this, instead she chose to look like some sort of strong arm thug.

    that wasn't finesse or smart politics. it was a veiled threat.

    obama isn't stupid. he knows she garnered a ton of votes. he knows her capital. so, she didn't have to
    slam him with it last night of all nights.

    just my take.

    and i am a middle aged, white, blue collar woman democrat from pa.

    we didn't all vote for her here.

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  3. AnneJune 4, 2008 at 7:59 PM

    Nope.

    I got no idea.

    I would have appreciated grace under pressure, too, Sherry.

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  4. Laurie MannJune 4, 2008 at 9:01 PM

    If she drops out on Friday as predicted, it'll be OK.

    I'm a white, middle-aged woman who supported her for a year, but had to switch to Obama because former President Clinton seemed kind of out-of-control and her campaign went very negative. A surprising number of women who really wanted to vote for a well-qualified woman for president here in Pennsylvania wound up voting for Obama.

    Frankly, she shot herself in the foot. Big time. But if she and her supporters do the right thing now, they have time to help unite the party before the convention in August.

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  5. Bram ReichbaumJune 4, 2008 at 9:12 PM

    Well, she sure as heck doesn't want VP. I think that was one part of the Kabuki -- make it clear to America that these two won't work well together and they both know that.

    Beyond that? Hillary's going to use her immense support to squeeze the maximum she can out of Obama. I think we can start with a more Hillary-lookin' health care plan. Maybe an agreement to send Bill to the holy land as Special Envoy to broker peace, maybe ... um ... she went to law school, right? Supreme Court Justice?

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  6. Sherry PasquarelloJune 4, 2008 at 9:18 PM

    and all that would be fine by me.
    she could have gotten the first 2 with little effort anyway and would have come away better in everyone's eyes, including all of her democratic colleagues if she had been gracious last night instead of being pushed into it today.

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  7. AnonymousJune 4, 2008 at 10:59 PM

    I actually like the Supreme Court idea.

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  8. Sherry PasquarelloJune 5, 2008 at 7:36 AM

    i think so too.

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  9. SueJune 6, 2008 at 9:13 PM

    Does anyone ever use the term gracious when describing a male candidate's behavior? And don't say yes, you think Obama is gracious. Was Edwards gracious when he suspended his campaign (to keep gathering money) and then dangled his endorsement for months?

    What's wrong with a woman making a power play? Should she crawl back to her kitchen in New York and hope Obama asks her to the big dance? Sheesh.

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  10. Sherry PasquarelloJune 7, 2008 at 8:09 AM

    just because they aren't doesn't mean it's right.

    i don't want to have to play like a man.

    i want everyone to play fair and be gracious and give a good example to others, especially younger people.

    power plays and politics as usual are something i'd like to see repudiated by everyone but especially women.

    pollyanna, maybe, but it has to start somewhere.

    can a woman play the game just like a man, better than some men?

    you betcha.

    do we have to somehow prove we "have balls"

    no way.

    maybe we can show people we have a better way.

    plus, everyone is different in their approach

    i long to see the day when each individual is just that and if a candidate A is more aggresive and candidate B is a little more laid back, that it will just be attibuted to thier personalities and not gender.

    no, i don't want her to crawl back to her kitchen. i want her to continue to do whatever she wants now, hopefully in some sort of government position. i admire her, always have but i just chose to back obama this time out.

    that's what eqality means to me, to be able to do what you want without being told by others what position one must fill in life.

    choice.

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  11. Eileen, Founder, Organizer, Mayor and Chief Cook And Bottle Washer of the Anger Management Girls.June 7, 2008 at 1:16 PM

    Well said Sherry.

    I will not vote for someone just because she is a woman, just like I would not vote for someone because they are Irish, Italian, etc.
    There are just as many woman jerks out there as there are men.

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  12. SueJune 8, 2008 at 9:46 PM

    Why must any critique based on gender provoke the "I'm not voting with my gender" response? What does that mean?

    And, Sherry, I just don't understand your point. If women should change the rules of the game, fine. But how is that going to happen if we don't elect them?

    If you personally prefer Obama, fine but don't put Hillary down because she's a woman who isn't acting the way society expects women to act (take the high road, gracious, blah, blah, blah). You can't have both sides of that arguement -- women should be free to make choices, just not the choices men make every single day of our lives.

    Isn't limiting women to making choices you approve of the same kind of repression we've got going on now?

    Some of us did vote for her and the way to keep our votes it not to bash us over the head like we are irresponsible teenagers in need of a clear delineation of consequences. I understand what McCain means for this nation. But I also understand that Obama is going to take us one step closer to living in a Christian nation. That's a pretty unfortunate consequence from my vantage.

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  13. Sherry PasquarelloJune 9, 2008 at 9:24 AM

    no one's bashing, at least, not me.

    my point, i guess is that choice means freedom to follow one's decisions based on their take on any given issue.

    women were pushed to take sides as soon as they decided that eqality was a right, not something to be doled out.

    it was the old divide and conquer that has been used forver to keep groups of people from orginizing for their benefit.

    some of us tried to act more like the sterotypical man then men actually were. some thought the feminist movement was only about being as sexually free as men were.
    some went with the backlash that always comes with huge changes and clung to the old 40's and 50 "father knows best" pipedream.

    people saw the movement thru their own eyes and experiences.

    then we has the freaking "mommy wars" say home with the kids or work. each side bashing the other.

    nothing but guilt guilt guilt.

    me, i want everyone women, men, no matter, to be equal. to bring to the table their own unique experience and talent.

    you voted for her, that's great. it's your right and i know from all of your posts in the past, that you take your vote very seriously. that is far more than a lot seem to do anymore.

    i was waiting and reading and watching all i could before i finally made up my mind and i chose obama. that doesn't mean i
    think a woman can't be whatever she is capable of being.

    om a personal note. i have 1 child, a daughter. i brought her up to be self sufficent and always told her to find what she wanted to be in life and work toward that goal. that we are all equal and all worthy of respect. that people had dignity and worth and were the same, female, male, gay straight bi or transgendered, any religion or none, and race, as long as they were good people tho no one is perfect.

    she is 35, have a master's in physical therapy from duquesne. she is great at her job, works with mostly elderly and poor because that is what she wanted even tho she could make more with sports med and such. she's been married to a man as progressive thinking and careing as she is and they have given us a perfectly wonderful granddaughter, adopted from china.

    so you see, i am the feminist that i can be. i was and am in my small way. by effecting my family and the people that i meeet, i try in my way to advance the cause of all of us, not just women. we are all in this life together.

    i was not meant for grand things, just picking and choosing my moments.

    yes, we have repression but we won't change that "overnight"

    we can change laws but it takes longer to change minds.

    i respect your choice to do things your way. we need all ways.

    my little rant.i hope i made sense. i tend to ramble.

    i do expect everyone to be gracious tho. that's not just a female trait. that's something we all should strive for at times and truly, it would be the smart move as well.

    graciousness is far different from surrender or being a doormat.

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  14. SueJune 9, 2008 at 1:03 PM

    Sherry,

    I still don't understand what you mean, other than that you are a feminist. That's great, but how are women going to make the changes you suggest if they aren't elected? Let's sidestep the issue of voting for women just because they are women, please. That drum is being beaten to death.

    My other question was why it is the "wrong" choice for Hillary to be assertive even as she concedes the nomination? You say people should be free to be themselves, but criticize Hillary for acting like zillions of male politicians do every day.

    This is the crux of my puzzlement of women supporting a male candidate: you want the freedom to not automatically support a female candidate, but you condemn that same woman for acting like a man. You want women's voices in politics, but you have a predetermined idea of what those voices should say and how they should say it (graciously).

    I'm puzzled.

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  15. Sherry PasquarelloJune 9, 2008 at 2:14 PM

    no, i'm saying gracious, should be non-gender. all candidates should be gracious.
    most aren't, that doesn't make it right. if women are going to change politics by bringing their visions and their unique perspectives to an office or a corporation etc. then we can not try to act like we see men doing to try to gain ground.

    men shouldn't act like "sterotypical" men either.

    traits like graciousness, courtesy,good manners, empathy and respect should be the norm. we as women have a great oportunity to lead the way without being doormats or having to ask for those things from others. we have every right to "expect them, but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

    we can set the example tho, raise the bar.

    yes, we can "play the game" as good as anyone else but i wouldn't lower my standards to do it.

    gracious, is not gender specific. good manners are not gebder specific.

    i understood why she didn't conceed as soon as i would have liked but i wasn't happy about it.

    that's just my personal feeling, others were quite happy and proud for their own reasons.

    i don't want to have to "play like the big boys" i want us all to play fair.

    no predetermined idea of what women should say, just the manner in which they say it.

    i just think hrc is better than how the last few months of her campaign were run.

    she'll do fine. she's got her course set and will do big things.

    we can elect women of many different styles. your style, my style all we have to do is find them to run and hope that they are the best at the job and that enough people feel the same way.

    i just din't feel she was the best for president right now.



    i will vote for a woman that is my best choice.

    why be a 2nd claas man by adopting the same old male politics when we (women) can be a 1st class woman and use our expreinces as women to show a different way?

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  16. Sherry PasquarelloJune 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM

    ps, typo queen? i don't have to run for that. it's all mine. sorry. : )

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